With Laura Esmond

Welcome back to the podcast. You are with Laura Esmond, and I am so excited to share with you today. a, a person that I met, a couple years ago, Caroline Klaar, she is a wedding and portrait photographer. we met as I was,doing a promotion for Get Rooted and she was looking for some guidance and shifting from weddings to portraits.

But here's one of the main reasons I wanted to bring Caroline on today. I have older kids, right? I've got two in high school, one in middle school, and I've been through the shift in business where, you know, you're shifting, growing, pivoting when your kids are little, but I'm. At a different stage of life.

Now, I've been through it and I can talk about it, but I'm not in it. Caroline is currently in it. She is, doing a slow, gradual transition from weddings to portraits, and she's got little kids at home. in fact, right now she's got one at home with her because she woke up, not feeling well.

So, but life doesn't stop, right? Motherhood doesn't stop and work doesn't stop. So we are going to talk about mindset and pricing and weddings and portraits and all kinds of great things. Caroline, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Laura. Hi. I'm so excited to be here with you. Oh, I'm so excited to have you here.

Let's first start off with, tell us a little bit about, about your business. a little bit about where you were prior to us meeting. Um, you know, maybe what. Caused you to reach out to me in the first place is and, and where you're trying to head. Just tell us a little bit about your story.

I've been doing photography for almost 17 years.

I'm, originally from Sweden. but I moved to the States, 14 years ago, and I went to school for photography. And during that time I started second shooting for a wedding photographer. and that was never really the plan for me to do weddings. It just kind of like snowballed and all of a sudden I was booking my own weddings, but I had no strategy really.

I, I was just taking any inquiry and I was making it work. and portraits was just kind of like a side thing. Even though I love doing them, I was always so busy with weddings. Mm-hmm. They were just, I didn't know how to price them. I wasn't really fully showing up for them because I was always busy with weddings.

and in 2019 I had my first child and that's when I started to feel like, wow, weddings are difficult when you have children. Oh yeah. So, oh yeah, I actually. I had my first wedding three weeks after giving birth to my first child. And it was,

oh my God. No way, Caroline. I had to do the same thing. No way.

That is, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's, it's wild, isn't it? 'cause you don't plan for that and it just happens and you're like, oh my gosh, I have a three week old at home and I have to like something in the bathroom and the whole deal.

Oh my gosh. Well, this was, a wedding at a mountaintop at a ski resort in New Hampshire.

Okay. At a mountain. It was a tented wedding, so there was nowhere for me to go and pump. So I was like, new mom still figuring things out. I had to like sneak out into the woods to pump. It was just like a whole thing. And I was like, man, this is my new life, you know? Right.

fast forward two more years and I had my second child and I was still really, really busy with weddings.

I loved doing them, but it was hard for me to manage. Two young children and weddings at once.

Mm-hmm.

when my second was about a year and a half, that's when I was super burnt out. I was so burnt out. 'cause I was up two, 3:00 AM every single night editing, because that's when I had time to edit.

I was home with my kids during the day and then I edited at night and then my kids woke up in the middle of the night and then we were up at like six in the morning with the kids. So it was just, I was so burnt out. And I remember writing to you, Laura, I was, I was just burnt out and exhausted and I didn't even know what I could change.

But I remember writing to you that I, I need help. I can't go on like this. I, I literally can't. I am not the mom I wanna be. I'm not the business owner. I wanna be, I need help, but I don't know what we can do.

Change. Yeah. I remember saying that specifically to my husband. I think it was, I'm pretty sure it was before Reese was born and we're kind of having the discussion that we probably should have had years prior, you know, about how we wanted to manage like work and, you know, daycare and do we wanna do daycare?

Did, does somebody need to stay at home with the kids? And we didn't really feel like we had the luxury to do that, but daycare was expensive. And I just remember, I remember being in the car and saying to my husband, I don't, I just don't wanna be bad at both.

Mm-hmm.

I don't, I don't wanna be bad at being a mom and bad at being a business owner.

And I eventually got to that place where I was like, I literally feel like I'm bad at both things right now.

Yeah, I did too. I felt like I was constantly too exhausted to do fun things for the kids, or I would snap at a small thing because I was just exhausted. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then I would show up all the shovel weddings and imported sessions because I had to wait until the babysitter came and then I had to leave last minute.

It was just like a cause and chaos and. I felt like I, there was no way around it. I mm-hmm. That was just the face I was in, but I needed to change it.

Yeah. And I know you, you have a 6-year-old at home, and then you have four, 4-year-old he'll be four in December. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you're still in the thick of it.

Right. So yeah, they have school and they're doing things, but you're still, you know, I feel like there's like this, this easy time with, with parenting where things get, do, get a little bit easier depending on how big their sports schedules get in like elementary years. But when they're young, and then again, when they're like in the, the high school years before they can drive, those are like the two really wild times where you're like, what is happening?

I have to be present so much and so often it's hard to balance both things. Exactly. so you were doing weddings, that was your bread and butter.

You are

also doing portraits. What were you, if you don't mind sharing, what were you charging for portraits?

Like, how were you handling portraits at there at that point? And what was your, like, thought process around how you were charging?

When I took the Get Rooted course, I realized that I was operating from a scarcity mindset. I was charging what I could afford myself and not what my expertise and experience and talent was worth.

$800 is not cheap either. That's still money. that's a good price. And it was really hard for me to see that anyone would pay more than that for a portrait session. I didn't know how I could pivot weddings to portraits when I could, when I couldn't see that I, I would be able to charge more than that.

yeah, and you're right, the $800 is not, it's not a small amount of money. when I was photographing weddings. I photographed weddings for about 12 years. That's how I started out. 12, 15 years, I guess. And then transitioned to portraits, when my kids were little. So just like Caroline and, it takes time to make that transition happen because weddings are so lucrative and they're really intoxicating.

It's hard to pass up that money. So it's a hard, it's a difficult transition. It takes time. when we're pricing portraits, we're always thinking about it based on time if we're a wedding photographer. 'cause wedding photographers, when you're pricing your weddings, it is a lot based on time, right?

It's like, how long am I gonna be at the wedding? Or, you know, I, I know you mentioned you did a whole weekend long wedding. I do that a I was doing that a lot out here in Colorado. They were like, you know, two, three, sometimes even four day event that you're pulled away from your family. And so you're, so you're creating a package based on time.

Then when we, as a wedding photographer, we look at portraits and we're like, well, I mean, how much could I possibly charge for that? Because it's just, it, it's just, you know, an hour, which we forget, like it's actually way more than an hour, right? especially if you're providing a really good experience.

so when we try to translate our wedding prices into portrait prices, that's where we get stuck and suddenly we go, there's no way to make money here. it doesn't feel like there's a way that I can actually make an income and bring money home to my family, which is the point of a business.

And so while $800 at the time felt like. Probably, I think I was charging a little bit less than that. I think I was charging 500 and then I think I upped it to 800. 'cause I went through the same transition and, and I had clients that were like $800 and I was like, okay, that's the max.

Like no one's gonna pay more than that. I do the

same thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. From 500 to 800. Yeah. From

five. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. so talk about, tell me about, 'cause I know I, it took me a long time. I didn't have somebody whispering in my ear like I was kind of doing with you, like the value and, and your charging for artistry, not time.

And you're charging for your experience and your expertise and, and you know, kind of. Unblocking, all of those things. So it took me years to overcome that. What was that like for you when you started to realize I can actually charge more and here's how, here's how I can package these things, and what was that transition like for you?

I think the big click for me was when I realized that I am not just a photographer, I'm an artist. And for me, being a photographer was showing up and taking pictures with my camera and that it essentially, that it was like a right way to take a picture and then I took that right way picture and then, yeah, that was my job.

You, you know, I deliver the image and that was it. Yeah. Versus when you are an artist, it kind of like gave me more leeway to be creative and test different things and. Just like any artist, we go through different phases. So sometimes you want dark and moody and sometimes you want light and area because I have always advertised as a light and area photographer.

But now I show up much more as an artist and I feel, I feel the family, I feel the environment, and I, I kind of like shoot in the way that speaks to that specific session. And I think that was the big mindset shift for me that helped me raise my prices and just show up better for my clients because it wasn't that one size fits all.

Photographer type thing. I was an artist.

Oh, I love that. You and I have actually never talked about that piece of it. Part of what went through my head when you were saying that was that when we are, you know, charging like 500 or 800 you, to really build that business, you would've had to book a lot of portraits, quite a few portraits and, to be able to bring money home to your family.

Right. You know, depending on what your costs are for your business and that sort of thing. But to make a real living off of that, you would've had to book quite a few sessions. Yeah. it's not easy to show up as an artist when you've got a lot of sessions to book. You do get into that, just rinse and repeat and you're not showing up as an artist when your prices are too low.

Exactly, and especially when you're at the $500 level, because then a lot of people will book you and then you show up to, let's say you have like 3, 4, 5 sessions per week and it's impossible to be an artist and be creative when you have so many sessions per week. So raising my prices meant that I could take on less sessions and really show up for that family that booked me.

Mm-hmm. And still make a living and create art that the family would love rather than just Right. Doing the same thing for every single session.

I remember

you had written into our Slack channel and get rooted and talked about. I, I think this was just to me that you sent this to, um, on the private message, something about how. You had made a pivot. You'd made a shift. I think you'd had a couple of wins where people, you had clients who bought some artwork and really invested, and you were like, wow, okay, this can work.

And you were like, I, I, you know, last year was scrambling and working so hard and staying up late and editing sessions at night because that was the only time I had, and feeling exhausted and you're like, I'll never look back. I will never do that to myself again. Do you still kind of feel that way?

Absolutely. And that I have to work on that because I think I am a workaholic. I love what I do and it's so easy for me to just like, I'm just gonna do this one session. I'm just gonna squeeze it in. I'm just gonna edit a little bit. but I have to remind myself all the time that I need sleep. I cannot stay up past midnight.

I have to constantly remind myself that I am worthy of sleep.

Mm-hmm.

And that I will do better work if I sleep and I eat and I rest and I take breaks and. It was actually you, Laura, you reminded me that we have these businesses so that we can be with our family.

And I needed that reminder because for a very long time I felt like my business was running me and I was constantly showing up for my business, but not showing up for my family. So that was a great reminder for me that I'm doing this so that I can be present with my family. And if my business is doing so that I can't be present with my family, then why am I doing it right?

So I am constantly working on that mindset that there is time for work and there is time for time off. And I, I do it every time, every time I put the kids to bed. And if I feel like I'm too tired to work tonight, I actually take the night off.

Oh, I love that. Which is a huge win for me. Yes, yes. Yeah. Which I know is hard, especially when, you know, you're coming out a busy season.

on Tuesday, there's a podcast that I release about that I'm, that I'm releasing, which is now live. it's a weird, it's backwards time, like I'm talking about the past and the future.

at the same time. So on Tuesday, and it's all about when are the times that it's really imperative for us to slow down so that we can speed up. And I talk about it based on both in our personal life and also in our work life. do you ever sit down to the computer and I've got all these things to do today, but you lose that momentum, you lose that willpower and I'll stare at my to-do list and then I'll go and do something that's distracting me and then I stare at my to-do and I'm not even getting anything done right now.

I should just take a break and walk away and like go be with the kids or just go tidy up the house or you know, prep dinner, you know, or just something other than staring at my computer because I'm not actually being productive anymore. Yeah. All the time. Yeah,

all the time. Yeah. And I, you actually, you remind me or taught me a great thing about that too, because I remember telling you that I felt like no matter how much or how little I got done in a day, because back then the kids were much younger.

They were one and a half, and. Four, I think, uh, if I do, if I'm doing the math right. So back then I was much busier with the kids and I felt like I never got enough done. Uh, and you taught me that I should have a running check checklist that I make every day of three to five items that I check off. And I am very strict with myself on that as well.

I'm not perfect. Some days I don't, but I try that once I finish those three to five checklist items, I'm done.

Yes.

And that is so helpful because I was being burnt out because I felt like I was never doing enough, even though I was doing enough. Yeah.

I think when it comes to productivity in our business, you're, you, you're spot on with that.

we have to sort of break out and make, anything that we wanna accomplish, make it Accessible inside a day. Like what parts of this can I get done today? Is it just brainstorming something, because I think the things that tie us down are we have to get a lot of editing.

blogging and social media

breaking those things out into just smaller bite-sized tasks and realize, you know, the expression, you can't build Rome in a day.

Yeah. Always pushing ourselves. Yeah. Always. Yeah. It's a lot. I think when you own your own business, we're strivers, we're striving.

And, I was having a conversation with my husband the other day about, people will ask or pose the question, how do you define success? And, and I would always sort of struggle like the answer. My answer would always evolve and change depending on like, my stage of life and what was I doing.

And, and now my answer to that is if I feel content. That's the ultimate success to me is just feeling content because as somebody who is, who tends to strive and always has like a project and a goal and, and he was like, well, what? You know, tell me more about what you mean about that, because does that mean that you're not having, you don't have a goal?

I'm like, no, I always have goals, but as long as I can feel content with what I currently have, at the same time I can work towards a goal but still feel content. That's success to me.

That is so good. Yes. That is so Right,

right. Like if you've, if you're content, then you're happy. Yeah, things are good. Yeah.

You can still want a little bit more that next level, like that's fine, but I think we don't feel success when we feel like we're just not accomplishing and like things aren't getting done and we're going in going in circles around something. And that can happen when we've got little kids at home.

Right.

Yes. And that's another thing that I worked really, really hard on the first year that I took Get Rooted, I worked a lot on contentment and being, being content with what I have. Because I think, like you say, as entrepreneurs, we're always chasing the next big thing.

We're always on the go. We're always, because there's endless opportunities and we can do, we can take on as much work as we want. We can make as much money as we want. So it's really hard to be content. So that was one thing I really worked on and I'm, you know, it's, it's a work in progress, but it helped me slow down because it helped me feel more happy.

Uh, there I actually have a. Sticking out. I have a little reminder here, um, on my computer it says, all happiness is the gap between expectation and reality. And it's something that, um, Morgan household, uh, wrote in his book. I think it's in the Psychology of Money or if it's in the art of spending money. I don't know.

Um, but I thought it was really good reading the Artist of Spending Money. Me too. That's It's good. So good, isn't it? I love the first one, the Psychology of Money and so on. I, when I found that he had the other one, I I had to listen to it. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Um, yeah, and he's so good. He says so many good things and it really helped me put into perspective that we, we, our, our brains are wired to want the next thing.

So we need to be content with what we have because once we have the next thing, we're gonna want the very next thing.

The next thing.

Yeah. So we have to just slow down and be content. And that helped me. Take on less work because I don't have to make as much money if I don't spend money to feel happy, if that makes sense.

If we're not chasing the next car, the next house, the next whatever. So it kind of, that got, kind of got me into minimalism a little bit. I'm not gonna go too deep into that, but slowing down and, and just stop acquiring stuff and searching for things and, and like happiness in things has made me much more content, which has made me more happy in a, in a sense, and, and it's made me nachis work as desperately as it used to.

Does that make sense? That makes absolute

sense. Yeah. I love that. Okay, so we, I told you that we would go little like rollercoaster ride conversations. Let's, let's pull back and start and talk a little bit about, um, pricing and that shift that you made. So you were at 800, how have you put together your packages or maybe your base rate?

Like what is that shifted to now?

Yeah, so I went from 800 all inclusive, so that was the whole price for, for a client. And, and now I charge a $300 session fee or creative fee, and then they can purchase collections. I've done some different, I've, I've tried different pricing strategies, but that's what I'm currently doing.

And they can start with a 10, a 10 image package for $1,100 and they can get the whole collection for $1,500. So that's a big jump. That's a, I basically went from 800 all inclusive to 1800. Okay. For the same product.

Perfect. And then are you, because I know for a little while when you and I were working together, you were kind of trying to do IPS, it's a, you know, you were finding it sometime.

Were you finding it challenging a little bit or like you had clients that were kind of far away, or what was it, what was your experience with the IPS and are you still, um, looking to sell products? Like how was that piece fitting in?

Yeah, so yeah, it was hard. It, it was hard to, it was awkward if nothing else in the beginning to be like, okay, hey, we're gonna do IPS now.

And, uh, or I wouldn't say that to the clients, but to, to go from just delivering a gallery to selling it, because I struggle with crippling imposter syndrome. So I had to really work hard on that too, that who, who am I to, to sell something for this price? You know, it was really hard for me. Um, and a lot of my clients live.

An hour and a half to two hours away. So sometimes I do, um, IPS just online. Yeah. Or like a reveal session online, which is different from meeting. Yeah, yeah. Which is different from meeting in person. And I feel like it's, it's a little, almost a little more awkward doing it, like via Zoom as opposed to meeting.

So I'm still figuring out the best way and I still wanna book more clients that live closer to me. But I live about an hour away from Boston, and that's where most of my clients live. So I, I happily drive in there for them, but it doesn't always make sense to go back in there to do their IPS meeting, uh, in person.

Yeah, I can see that. And, um, I feel like, do you want, do you want some tips. Yeah. Okay, please. Um, because that wasn't really what this is about, but why not? So, and I, and I, and there is no perfect way, you know, to, to operate. You know, some people might listen to this and be like, I'm doing exactly that and this is what's working for me.

So, but I feel like if I were in that position, I do have some people that are long distance, right? They've traveled to Colorado for some reason, and we do a family portrait while they're out here. And with those, I, I do, I just do zoom. I feel like there are a couple of ways to go. One is, you know, if you are finding that very consistently, the ma, the large majority of your clients are always going to be that far from you because maybe you do the market research in your town and you understand like your demographic might, might not support, you know, the a luxury high-end price point.

I do feel like sometimes people end up in that boat where they're like, people out here legitimately, cost of living is different, the expectations are different. There are no signs of luxury market, et cetera. So if your clients are always that far away, it might be worth just offering packages and they purchase a package.

Now they can do this after the fact, so they're not locked into it upfront. So you still have your session fee, and then you have your package. You offer those, you do a quick zoom call to help them, maybe select the final pieces. You can have a little bit of a sales strategy on that call, if you're ever photographing in their home.

having a, what I call a pre-sales conversation. I know we've talked, we used to talk a lot about that and get rooted. but you have that pre-sales conversation where maybe if you, if you get to be in their home, or maybe it could be on a consultation call and, say, okay, you know, our end goal here isn't just to fill up your hard drive.

We want something beautiful, whether you do that through me or you do it on your own. Either way, I wanna make sure that I'm photographing for what you want to do with these as a long-term goal. Are you thinking? Do you have areas in your home that would be pretty to hang some artwork?

Is there something we wanna elevate? I'm like, just send me a little photo and I'll drop some images in and show you what that can look like. So you're just planting those seeds without necessarily having to go back for an ordering meeting.

I've played around with that as well, where I've got clients that maybe are, you know, an hour, hour and a half away and I'm like, I'm gonna test it out. I'm gonna spend the year just traveling back to them and see if it works out in terms of sales or if they're buying the same thing as people, when I just do a Zoom call.

Right. And that's a great idea. And I have done that a couple times and when I did do that, uh, they actually purchased more artwork than when I don't do that.

So it does help to take pictures of their walls when I'm there for their family session. So they can look at it ahead of time and then kinda, you plant a seed in their head so they. They know they want it before they even see their images.

Um, but I feel like I should practice being more confident in talking about artwork, even if they say that they just want the digitals.

Most of my clients purchase the full gallery, which is great. Uh, I, I never want them to feel like they have to purchase something that they don't want or more than they can afford. Um, so if they say they only want the digitals, then I'm not gonna pressure them. But I would love to, or I will be practicing, being more confident in, in selling artwork to them.

you labeled it as imposter syndrome, when you break it down, We have our cost associated with what we're doing, but we also are providing a service so that they don't have to think through all of that artwork.

So there's the service involved in the price. let's say you're doing a single frame, right? There's the cost, there's your service time, and actually taking time off their plate, right? This big task off their plate. And then there's just the value of the beauty of what you're creating for their home.

This thing that they're forever gonna look at and the value of that, which is kind of hard to put a price on. And I think that's where it, it's hard as, but at the end of the day, all we're doing is extending our service do you want help with printing them?

I don't know why we get tied up and awkward about it. I think it's because in the back of our mind, we know that when we offer that, we're also presenting this like option of them spending more with us and we get awkward about that piece of it. But really in the end, it's just a service.

it would be like if a waiter served their client or served the table, brought dinner, and then at the end just brought a check and didn't ask, would you guys like dessert? If you're like dying for dessert and you don't wanna have to stop and you have no ice cream at home and you're like, I just want dessert, but he just gave me the tab.

I'm supposed to leave now, like I want dessert. It would be like just forgetting that piece and the waiter being like, well I thought it was awkward. I don't know. I didn't wanna ask,

I didn't wanna charge you more money. Yeah, exactly. No, that's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Um, or I happily pay my hair hairstylist to do my hair even though I could do it myself, but it wouldn't turn out as good just as if they were to purchase frames at Target.

when I first started in this, in photography industry, there were probably target frames, but I'm like, I'm not that old.

Am I am like, target existed, right? Uh, there were, there were frames accessible, but for the most part, you either, you had to like physically print things and go to a local framer. There, there wasn't Frame Bridge. There was an Amazon, you know, now there are all of these different places where you can buy pretty affordable frames, but I'll tell you, I've ordered those

I ordered Etsy, just this cute little Piece of art for my daughter's room and then, and had 'em printed and framed pretty big. They're like 24 by 30 or something, 20 by 30, to hang in her room, a handful of years ago. And I was like, I dunno, let's stray out frame bridge and see how that works.

And they're cute, but they're cheap. And they're, they're pretty cheaply made. They, they serve a really great purpose, but they're not heirloom, right? Like they are not heirloom. And anything you throw into a target frame, they're not heirloom. then you have to be in front of someone who's like, oh, I care enough about that to say yes.

You either got me as the client, you either got me at creating something that's truly heirloom, like a beautiful piece of art that you're gonna keep forever, your child's gonna want it later. Or you got me at service, I don't have the time and I don't have the skillset to know what to frame and where to frame it and how big the match should be and what size it should be, and what does it mean to crop it.

at one of those intersections, the client goes, you know what, yeah, I'll have, I'll have you do this. It is, it is more expensive than what I would do on my own, but one, it's higher quality. Two, I don't have to lift a finger that those two things alone, not even mentioning the fact that you've created something really beautiful for them, the actual image, that gets them right there.

that's value. Those two. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah,

and once they invest more, they will also automatically evaluate more. So just the fact that they've spent a lot more money on it versus a target frame will mean that they will love it more.

Yeah. And people often ask me, they're like, do you do IPS with every one of your clients?

Or does every single one of your clients buy? Because I am such a proponent, I am such a supporter of doing that for so many reasons. One, I think it's a better service to our client. Two, you're gonna make more money in your business. It just allows you to make more. but no, I have plenty of clients who are like, not this time, I don't really, I don't really need it.

You know, I just wanted to make sure I documented this time. They know my drill, they know what's important to me. They know what I offer. some choose to do artwork and some don't.

There are so many different ways to run this business. The important part is to make sure that you're not limiting your ability out of, you know, fear or assumptions for what your client needs or what they want.

Yeah. That is so right.

So let's, let's get back to, you know, this transition that you're making between weddings to portraits. 'cause I know a lot of wedding photographers, um, talk to, actually in your get rooted group, there were quite a few of you guys that were wedding photographers looking to at least, not necessarily step fully away from weddings, but to balance that load a little bit where it's a little bit more so it's more portraits and fewer weddings.

How many weddings were you booking before? Where are you now and what are your plans moving forward?

Right, so, uh, previous years, I usually book between. I run, I run a 2020 weddings, 2025 weddings a year. Uh, more than that wouldn't have been possible with too little kids

at home, but that's still a lot.

Okay. Question right there. Before you go forward, in some destinations you can photograph weddings all year round, but yours is probably pretty seasonal. What are the months that you're booking those? Like 20 that you were booking? 20, 25 weddings, right? how many months was that?

That's in six months. I'm in New England, so we have a fall and a winter season. Uh, in, in the winter it's, we have a slow season for sure. We're at like four months of no weddings. Okay. So my busy season is from. End of May until end of October.

Okay, so that's almost every weekend then that you would've been in for six months that you're photographing a wedding, right?

Yeah,

pretty much. Yeah. I had weekends where I had triple headers, even though I had two little kids at home. I had like a Friday wedding in Connecticut, a Saturday wedding in New Hampshire, and a Sunday wedding in, in Massachusetts.

And that sounds impossible, but these states are small, so it's easy to travel in between. It's like an hour in between, but it was crazy. Uh, and that's what you have to do when you only have six months of, of a busy season. Um, but talking about what, what I'm doing now is I have cut it down to eight weddings this year so that I can.

Be much more intentional with my clients and, and listen to them and, and book clients that really align with my values and how I want to photograph their weddings. And going forward, I wanna be even more intentional with the couples I book with, I really wanna feel like they choose me because of my vision and how I shoot weddings

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense because in our process of working together, you made a pricing shift also in your weddings to like kind of applied what you were learning and get rooted about portraits. You apply that to your weddings, right? If I remember correctly. And you were like, okay, if I wanna provide that sort of service and experience and show up rested, then I need to make sure that I'm, that I'm pricing appropriately to provide that service.

So those prices went up a bit.

So now, so, so you've cut back quite a bit. That's actually amazing. I mean, that's like a third of the number of weddings and you've been kind of slowly growing your portrait business to have a very intentional client base for that.

what's gonna happen for 2026 then?

Yeah, and, and cutting down our weddings have given me that little breathing room to plan ahead. I feel like previous years I was always so busy that I was just like constantly editing and, and emailing clients, and booking new weddings that I never had that breathing room to make plans for the next year.

Um, and having less clients this year have given me that chance and I'm, I'm. I still don't know how next year is gonna play out because I plan to only take on a few weddings and put much more effort into my portrait side of the business. but I'm really excited about that to finally have, free space in my calendar to have a day where I can just plan out my social media posts and things like that.

'cause right now those things are usually happening late at night when I have some free time to, to post something. So it's not as intentional as I wanted. So I'm really excited to, to just be more intentional in general with my business and, and not just operate from a. Busy mom's point of view where I'm just doing things on the fly, in the car, in the pickup line, you know?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's moving from like being just reactive in the business, you know? Yeah. And, and are like, your nervous system is running on high and you can't even, you can't self-soothe I would self-soothe with massive amounts of coffee whenever I go for that sort of thing, which is the opposite of what my nervous system would need.

having that breathing room, it feels like that's sort of like the, um, the overarching theme of, of everything we've talked about is really, um, that space to breathe and what that is meant for your business. Being able to make that shift from weddings to portraits, allowing that time as opposed to forcing it, because it does take time.

It takes time to transition and create a client base and, and, and find the clients that you really want for your business for, portraits. and it's really hard to walk away and create a cutoff. okay, I'm only going to take five weddings this year. That's a hard thing to do because you'll probably get a hundred inquiries about weddings.

Yeah. It's so hard. It's so hard, especially when you've been relying on weddings for 10 plus years. And to step away from that when you have all the experience and I, I can, I can shoot a wedding, you know, with my, with a blindfold on. I know what to do. I know where to be. I know how to think. It's, and it's so fun.

And you run on adrenaline and you, it's so fun.

But I, I am so excited to put all that energy into my portrait side and yeah, and really excel at that part.

Yeah. And that balance will be wonderful to have a handful of wedding clients that you can serve so deeply and so beautifully and show up feeling creative.

now that I'm thinking about it, when you were photographing that many weddings, that is on par with having an October where you photograph 50 mini sessions and you're reacting and moving and there's no space and no time.

You go from session to session to session to edit, edit, edit, respond to a few emails, hope everybody gets there on time Then when you transition to something slower, that honors time with family, that does require a price increase, which is the scariest thing, I think, for people.

But it's doable and it's manageable. and then you have space, which is invaluable by the way that's in that book, right? The art of spending. He talks about that a lot, about,

how we use money as a tool and one of the things that he talks about for himself, why he likes to save money is because he's buying himself freedom.

Every time you put money away, you're buying yourself freedom. And it's the same thing with a business. Your pricing and how you set up your pricing is either buying you freedom or not, or the opposite, right? and freedom. For a photographer, for a creative means, one, having time for your family, not feeling like even when you're with them, you're constantly thinking about what you need to be doing for work.

That's a thing. and it also buys you the freedom and creativity to show up to your wedding, the next wedding or the next portrait session, feeling rested and fueled up and like ready to go. That's exactly,

that's freedom. Yeah. Yeah. And not feeling like you have to take on every single inquiry because you have to

Yeah.

To

make more money. Yeah. That's so true.

one thing I wanna touch on is, what has this really meant, this transition of like, very intentionally pricing your weddings and your portraits in a way that gives you more time back, gives you more freedom.

what has it meant for youpersonally with your kids, your, your spouse? Like all of those things?

So when I reached out to you, I wasn't in need of making more money.

What I needed was to find a balance, a work-life balance where I had more time for my family and my kids and not feeling like, like I was constantly pulled away from them too. My business, and that is what I have gained by increasing my pricing and serving my clients more intentionally. I have so much more time with my family because in the last two years now, I have taken July and half of August off to be with my kids.

I don't book anything in the summer, and it's been amazing. It's been so, so great to not be away for weddings every single weekend and, and sessions during the night. So I miss dinner. So being slowing down and being more intentional has given me so much more time back with my family. And the funny thing is that I haven't really lost income, so I'm, I'm still,

I'm, I'm, yeah.

Yay. I'm clapping. If anyone can hear that sound, that makes me so happy. That means that all the work that you did over the past two years has really. I mean that what a, what an amazing impact. one of the things that you said, it just like clicked for me, I think sometimes if clients ever listened to this, they may be like, oh, that's really interesting.

you have such a cool job. what could be difficult? here's what I think we don't really give enough weight to, a lot of photographers are working during the hours that their family is at home and gathering for dinner or going to the playground and even if it's just a quick session you are popping out to for a Saturday, not a wedding, but like, just a quick session, my mind.

Is gone a few hours before that session starts. Then I gotta travel to the session, then photograph the session, and then my mind is sort of gone for a little bit afterwards, and then I'm finally like, okay, family, I'm, I'm, I'm back. You know? So exactly.

For me, it's the whole day. If I know that I have a session at 7:00 PM that evening.

I'm gonna be occupied by that the whole day. Yeah. Mentally. And I have actually, yeah. And I have learned now to not book too many social, like play dates or doctor's appointments or things like that on a day where I have a session because my social batteries will be drained by the time of the session.

And it's so important how you show up. Yeah. So for me, that was a big, uh, mindset thing too, for me to realize that I'm an extroverted introvert, so I love people. I have a lot of energy when I meet them, but then my social batteries kinda run out after a while. So if I do a lot of things during the day, I'm not gonna have that energy for my clients.

Right. Yeah. I feel you.

I wanna know, what would you say you're gonna put on a coaching hat here for a minute. You ready?

Most people should be coming outta their busy season. What would you say to a photographer right now who is the end of a busy season and is just like, something has to change,

what advice would you give them?

For me, I had to establish really clear boundaries with myself and with. My business and actually learn to say no to people too and not be such a people pleaser. And I know that's a trendy word, like I'm a, I'm a people pleaser, but I felt like I was always, um, trying to overdeliver to all my clients. And that's a sure way to burn out.

So I think for anyone coming out of busy season feeling burnt out, I think they need to establish some rules for themselves on how to take care of themselves during busy season and how to show up for their business and have some clear rules and boundaries because we can't do it all. We can't be a perfect mom and a perfect business owner and a perfect wife and homeowner and all of these things, especially when the kids are little and they need you all the time.

Mm-hmm.

I still go through that. I still go through that, especially in busy season where I feel like, oh, I've got everybody booked that I need to get booked. And then somebody pops up and I'm like, oh, shoot. I need to find time for them. just the other day, a prior client, had a baby recently and wants to get in for a newborn session.

And I'm looking at my calendar and I, ugh, I hate to say I can't fit you in for a few weeks, but I literally can't fit you in for a few weeks. And it, it's hard. But I also know that if I try to show up to that in the middle of craziness, I'm not gonna give the service that I want. And I have to balance those things, plus all the things going on with the kids.

it's hard to make boundaries and actually stick with them.

Yes, it's so hard, but I have to do the same. And even if I know that I have like a parent-teacher conference, for my daughter one week, and I also have a doctor's appointment that week, so it doesn't even have to be a business related.

But if I know I have a busy week with a lot of commitments, I'm not going to squeeze in a session too. I am much better at it. I'm not perfect, but I'm much better at it compared to two years ago where I would've been like, oh, well I can still do one here and I can do one on Wednesday and one on Monday.

You know, it's, I'm not gonna show

up as good. And you were financially motivated to feel like you had to, right? Because you, weren't charging enough. And so you do have this financial motivation to be like another, another, another.

And you stay in that frame of mind. whereas when you are charging enough, once you get to that enough point and you're like, okay, I, I'm there, I'm good. I should choose the sessions now at this point, versus feeling the need to just book all of them. It's a luxury of a lower volume business.

Laura, you just touched on one of my big mindset shifts that I should have mentioned before at such a big month, the enough number, ah, once I realized that there is an enough number, that was like a big light bulb moment for me. Like, ah, now I have an enough number now that I, I meet and I know I need to meet.

But anything beyond that is. Nice fluff that I don't need to do any extra.

Yeah. And

that enough number, that's because as an entrepreneur and as a self-employed, we can always make more, but that it comes at the expense of our family and our free time and our mental health and our sleep and all these things.

And you don't show up as good anyways if you are overextending yourself. So that enough number for me was everything.

You know what's interesting? We're never gonna get off this call. So what's interesting is that when, when you are, so I feel like a lot of photographers, sometimes they're like, I just, I don't know that I'm worth more money.

But here's the conundrum

for those people who are at that point where they technically should raise their price because they're booking a lot of sessions, now they're overbooked, it's too many but they look at it and go, yeah, but I don't feel like I'm worth more.

The conundrum is if you were photographing fewer sessions, you would show up better and create better work. I remember when I was running my retail studio. And we would go through this period in October and November. We would book so many sessions because we were a volume studio intentionally.

I would get to mid-December and be like, I am a terrible photographer. I just, I felt like I was a worse photographer than I was at the, at the start of the season. And, and so, you know, if you have that in your head where you're just shooting, shooting, shooting, creating the same work, it starts to feel a little stale.

You can't be as creative. You can't show up as intentionally. And so then you're like, well, I mean, I can't really charge that much more. I'm not worth more. But if you give yourself space and time, you lift that burden and you can actually start to create some of the most beautiful artwork for your clients.

And then you're like, there you go. I'm worth it.

Exactly. And you also have the time to edit. Until you love it, because you don't have to just, just churn out galleries because you have such a long list to edit, so you can finally take the time to do it. So that was a huge, huge, huge mindset shift for me.

Oh, well, Caroline, I love this conversation. I love talking to you. for the past two years, I just love the messages that we send back and forth and the support that, that we both reciprocate with each other. Like any, you guys, anytime I post anything, Caroline will always be like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, or you look beautiful, or what?

I, I'm like, I love you. Like, you're just so sweet.

Um, and I love the community, community that you have created because all of us photographers in Get Rooted, we are each other's biggest cheerleaders, and that's thanks to you, Laura.

Oh, thank you. I'm glad. And it's, it is, thanks to you guys too. Like, I, it it, it has been a really neat community.

You know, it's so small. It's not a large, huge group of people and so we get to know each other pretty well. Um, and that is, God, that is so valuable in this business to have a safe space, a safe small space that you can go to and just be like, you guys, like, I'm going through something and I need some advice here.

Exactly. It's so lonely. And you're a business owner and you Yeah. You don't have colleagues. So this has been invaluable. And I honestly think you've saved my life because I don't know, I, I probably would've had to get like a, a normal job if I hadn't met you because I couldn't have continued doing what I

used to do.

Well that would be a loss for the world. 'cause your art is beautiful. So, um, what is your handle on Instagram? And I'll link it below, but what is, because it's not your, it's not Carolina, is it Klaar? No, it's just Klaar. K-L-A-A-R Photography. Okay. Yeah. And then it's Swedish. There. You can find her. It's Swedish.

Yeah. Um, and from there you can find her Instagram and all these things. So, you know, go give her a follow. It's been really cool to watch you transition and, and grow, but as you're doing that though, always, always keeping your kids and your family at the forefront,

that's what I'm gonna think about at the, at the end of my life is how much time did I get to spend with them? And, uh, you've always been so present to that and it's been an absolute joy working with you over the past couple of years. So thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, Laura. Thank you.

All right. Talk to you soon. Bye-Bye. Bye.