With Laura Esmond

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Laura Esmond: one of the reasons that you and I started talking is 'cause I was like, yeah, okay. She's willing to admit that. Yeah. there was a downswing in 24, end of 24 through, through a lot of P five.

Yeah. And, a lot of people felt it. but it's a hard to talk about, we don't wanna publicly talk about that. It's, it's difficult. So I was, I it was really refreshing that you were like, yeah, no, we want,

oh yeah. I think people need to talk about it to normalize it and to not feel like you're alone.

This isn't like a secret. It's happening in every business. So why it

Laura Esmond: happening in every business

talking about it? And why aren't we shouting from the rooftops Support small support small businesses. Yes. Like, we have to be advocating for each other, otherwise we're not going to be here anymore.

Laura Esmond: one of the things that you mentioned, was, community marketing. Really getting out in the community. And we sort of touched on this a little bit in the beginning, but then we kind of steered in a few different directions.

So I wanna bring it back to that. I would really love for people to walk away from this podcast today feeling like, oh, that's what I can do. Because I think we kind of get stuck in this mode of, um, it feels really comfortable for me to just stay in my pajamas half the day and grab a cup of coffee and be like, I'm gonna work on my SEO, uh, SEO is hugely important.

Um, I'm a huge,

it, it's all important.

Laura Esmond: It's all, but yes, exactly. It's all important. Yes. Like we can't just work on SEO or just do a handful of posts that are gonna have a 24 hour lifespan to be

well-rounded.

Laura Esmond: let's talk about some of the things that a business can do when, you know, if we don't have bookings, we've got time.

Right? So how should we be spending that time and getting into the community

So there's years to where you're like, I can't say yes to everything. You know, I don't wanna overextend myself. And the longer you are in your business and the more education you get with your business, um, you realize there are times there's a season for Yes. And there's a season for nos.

Mm-hmm. I'm in my season of Yes. To where it's like, if I have a current client and she owns a business and she's hosting an event, I will reach out to her and be like, Hey, do you want me to photograph this event for you? I would love to help you and serve you knowing like I'm not getting paid for it. But again, the long game is she's gonna be like, I appreciated you so much for helping me with that.

And then she may down the road, book another family session or refer me out. So. That's what I'm focusing on this year is getting out more in the community, going to events that align with, um. Like the type of people that I wanna network with. Um, and that could be as simple as going to a floral workshop and just meeting the people who are attending the floral workshop.

I'm not photographing it, but I'm supporting that florist by paying for a ticket to go to that

Laura Esmond: and having fun in the meantime. I think a lot of times people think of these, you know, of having to know

networking doesn't have to be all business. Business, right? Like I could take the daughter to one of those.

We could have an absolute blast. And then I met, you know, these three brand new people and we shared about what we do as businesses,

Laura Esmond: right?

So that's like what I'm talking about, like little planting of seeds too, and touchpoint moments. Um, but I think, yeah, definitely as photographers, whether you have a home office, a home studio, or a commercial space, we can easily get really comfortable with just.

Showing up to work and then Yeah. Or staying in your pajamas. I mean, I have to get dressed every day that I'm here because I have the foot traffic, so that forces me to talk with people that come in. Um, but yeah, if you're stuck in your bubble, I would highly suggest figuring out certain, uh, events in your community that you would like to attend that genuinely bring you joy.

Mm-hmm. Um, and that just can kind of get the word out more about how you can help others and how they can help you.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. And

your current friends, like, Hey, do you know of any cool events happening soon or, yeah, just, I'm always constantly picking people's minds too.

Laura Esmond: I do feel like when I was running, so I don't know if you might not know this history about me, but for about seven, eight years I had a. Kind of a, a higher volume portrait studio with retail storefront. It was very expensive. Um, it was a little overwhelming while at the same time really, really fun.

But that is really where I learned, you know, we had, that, we had high overhead from the moment we moved in. I had my business at, sort of rolled into that studio, but it, there was no way my small business was going to support the overhead of that business. So I had to work very hard, very quickly to, to learn how to network, um, be uncomfortable for 20 seconds to actually have courage to go into some situations.

I remember at one point looking at my husband being like, I can't imagine what my little at-home business would've turned into had I done that sort of networking before being sort of forced into it with that big volume space. And the cool thing that I found was that with every, with every little connection that I made, you know, whether it was.

Going to like an a, a true networking group where you are finding other business women, and then that would spiral into maybe doing a headshot event for one of them, or family session. I would kind of connect the dots of different people to each other and be like, oh my gosh, all of that work stemmed from going to this one event.

You know, from that one event, I might be like, oh, I met one person, whatever. But then I realized that one person connected me with someone else where I actually hosted a little event for them in their space, and that connected to three people, and it just sort of spider webbed out.

And then I also ended up meeting a lot of women that. were all in the same boat. I realized that we're all these little, businesses and we all wanna get out and meet people, but everybody's a little nervous and scared to actually put themselves out there.

And then you finally get into an environment where you're meeting people. And every one of those women had either a, a business that they needed to support or they had friends who had businesses. And that web in that community Is so much more valuable, I think, than when somebody's scrolling and they just see a pretty picture.

we're doing

an ad, an ad on social media where you don't, you haven't even met these people yet. You need to really tap into your current clientele.

Laura Esmond: it's invaluable those relationships. So I'm a big believer. what I really love is you said, there can be seasons of No.

And seasons of Yes. And yeah, if business is a little bit slower. Then let's go in and do some of that legwork and get out from behind our computer find something that maybe connects you through your family or something else that you love. And then you can plug your business here and there and let people know who you are.

Yeah. And I'm saying yes to things that aren't going to overextend me. I am slower right now, so I'm trying to think of like, maybe I, I've never hosted. An event in my studio, that didn't mean like sessions were taking place. I've never hosted a group of women in my studio and have, drinks and a gorgeous charcuterie board or something.

And then we just all talk. Or I have like guest speakers come in. And so I'm thinking of doing some, I have the space, why am I not using it for other purposes besides portrait studio and client meetings? So that's something that I'm thinking about, connecting with other small business owners. I don't know if it would just be women or if it would be like husband and wife teams too, but these are like little ideas I have going on.

I got invited to a, a friend of mine who is a realtor. her and her husband, husband and wife team. they do a beautiful job on restoring homes in the community, in the neighborhood that they live in. And they just finished a really nice mid-century modern one.

I got to see it while as it was wrapping up. It was like, oh my gosh, dream home. I wanna live here. But, um, I said, if you have a, a, not a broker's open, but like a friends and family home tour before the brokers open, I kind of planted that seed. 'cause she did that about three years ago with another home. So I think it was kind of like a, I should do that.

I said, I really wanna come. So I went to that and then I thought, you know what? This home is so perfect for my fine art cite artwork. I want. I asked the realtor, I said, after all of your open houses, can I bring some of my art into this home? I need more. Um, I need more interior shots of my artwork in spaces so I can put it on my print shop.

And it's just a win-win. 'cause I feel like our art resonates with a mid-century modern home. And she was like, sure thing. I basically had the whole house to myself. I did like four or five different setups of, of artwork in different rooms. I did v phone videos and I did this because I'm slower. I wanna start showing more of how art could look in the homes.

And I was like. I need to do this, um, just to get more exposure out there of how the art could look in homes. But, um, and that home already sold, so I was thankful that I was able to get in there that quickly and do that. Um, and then I joked with her. I was like, oh, the, the home sold, by the way, like that fast.

And the people purchased all the furniture in and I said, too bad my artwork wasn't in there. They could have purchased that too. Like I jokingly said that. So hopefully that kind of planted the seed on like, Hey, if you do more staging, I would love to include some of that artwork in it too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

That story wasn't as short as I had, uh, had wanted it to be. But that was another thing that I had no intention of doing any of that. But because of all those touchpoint moments, I was like, you know, what could I, could I bring my artwork into here?

Laura Esmond: Mm-hmm.

And it was staged and done and beautiful. I didn't have to set up anything, just my artwork.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. And that's where I feel like that is, that's kind of a living proof conversation or story about how yes, we need to be, in communication with our own industry and kind of talk to each other about like, what are you doing and what are you doing and what's working? And you know, I've had a down month and I need to, I need a revenue boost.

Any ideas, you know, things like that. But also connecting yourself just with people in your community and talking to them about like, how can I support you? And then that snowballs into these other little projects. And now you could very directly go to her and say, Hey, that you know that my artwork actually looked really beautiful in that house.

Would you wanna showcase it in your next home? Yeah. Um, you know, I'd love to let you borrow some of it, and I'm sure she'd be like, absolutely. And then you could have little cards sitting there so people could buy the artwork. And I mean, all of these things, I feel like in our business, I think we can get really caught up in our own little, um, our own little world and what we want people.

To do with our business and how we want people to interact with our business. But then when we actually get out in the community and we start talking to people, we, we open ourselves up to all these other possibilities that just end up feeding and filtering down into our core business. You know, I feel like branding is that way for me.

I haven't spent much time in trying to market branding. Um, I've spent the first part of the year really focused on education, but before I got into education, the first part of the year was 100% connecting with real estate agents, financial advisors, um, pretty much all women hosting women's events that kind of work towards, you know, either doing headshots there or at the event, or, um, like that's actually a great idea, I think for your studio 'cause it's so beautiful for this is during the day, host a little headshot, you know, happy hour and networking and everybody can get a quick headshot like, like a LinkedIn headshot, right?

And then that can grow into, uh, doing branding maybe for some people. And, and then as we're meeting those people, you're connecting a lot of times with working moms who are like, oh, I'm gonna need portraits. Now they, they know us as photographers and they'll come and connect with us and hire us for that core business.

But it's getting out of our day to day of, I only wanna get hired for newborn. You know, it's like, well, I mean, but you can get newborn work through doing all these other things though.

Casia: Yeah. I, I've seen it go to where people are like, you have to niche, you have to niche down. You have to only do this.

But I feel like if your vision and your post processing style and your posing all correlate, then why can't you branch out into branding or lifestyle headshots?

Speaker 3: Absolutely.

It has been a huge part of our business.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Um, so many small businesses need help with.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Casia: That aspect of, you know, beautiful images for their own website or if they are getting published somewhere.

Two amazing landscape designers here in town that I've partnered with. And because we've done their photo shoots, they then had the confidence to submit to a local magazine publication, and then those get featured. So that's just like the proof of like, yes, I need to invest in amazing, photography because it will only better my business as well.

Right. And they'll attract like-minded clientele too. So it's just. An amazing full circle partnership that we need to col continue to cultivate.

Laura Esmond: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I wanna, anybody listening, if you're, if you're not getting out there and doing other types of work, 'cause you feel like it's gonna detract and

you don't have to necessarily show it, right?

You don't have to, but because we have made a conscious decision to where both, all three of those divisions look like our brand, I feel like it works to show on social media in our grid and on our website. Yes. But you could choose not to show that. But that's just extra income and networking possibilities for you.

Laura Esmond: if you really think about. That in terms of branding, I think we did all as an industry years ago, finally realized like, oh, we do need to be better about how we brand ourselves and our work and our look and, and make it a bit more cohesive so that when people come to us, they know what to expect.

They know what they're getting. You're sort of like a

specialist.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. You, you become a specialist, but that doesn't mean that you have to be a person that only photographs newborn or only photographs, maternity. You can be a person with a look that photographs all different kinds of things. where we started to realize that was when we were building out websites in, I would say, what, what would that be like?

The late, late, late. 1990s, like 98, 99, 2000, 2001, you know, everyone started to build, because I'm trying to think, I was in art school in 2000 and then for like a year and a half, and it was right around then that all the photographers in the industry were just starting to put together websites.

For a handful of years, you would land on a website and it was just like blah. It was just like portfolio work, right? And it was kind of all over the place because there was, nobody cared about having a cohesive look because there wasn't a digital representation. You would physically grab a, a printed portfolio and you could go talk to people about your work and you could create, you could put whatever prints you wanted in there.

So then when we created websites, we were like, oh gosh, this doesn't look good. Like there's colors all over the place and there's all different kinds of styles and lighting and whatever. Because we were always showcasing I can do all kinds of photography. Then we maybe started to niche too much where it was like, I'm only a motherhood photographer, but it's like, hold on.

You have an incredible skillset that you can utilize in all these other different ways. Earn money while you're doing it. You can have a look and a brand and a style and still photograph multiple different types of sessions and it will still feel cohesive, you know, a hundred

percent agree.

Laura Esmond: so one of the things I think a lot of people worry about or start to really think about, and I think it comes from, well, money and pricing and like, what should I be pricing myself?

I'm not getting booked, I'm not getting hired. That must mean we go straight to I. If I'm not getting hired, it means my pricing is wrong. And I think that comes from our brain is always seeking certainty. And when we seek certainty in our business, our first response is to just lower our prices or create a business model based on the person that's right in front of us.

And maybe the person, if you're getting constantly reached out, you know, people are always reaching out, saying. I just want the digitals and I can spend a few hundred dollars. Then your brain is going to tell you, I can guarantee you bookings if you just sell the digitals. But the fact is, that's not the whole truth.

Right? Our brain is seeking certainty and some sort of like really solid ground, but it's not the whole truth, you know? Yeah. If I sell digitals. You know, a full set of digitals for $800 and I just do a booking and it's like $800. Sure. I'm gonna sell a lot of those sessions. I know that. and my brain isn't thinking about is I'm also sacrificing time and my life and artistic integrity because I'd have to book 20 sessions a month at that point.

And so I have to, you know, we have to be uncomfortable for just a little bit so that we can find those right fit clients. I

Casia: think people, when they're not busy, they freak out.

Laura Esmond: Yes.

Casia: And

Laura Esmond: yes.

Casia: When you've been in the business as long as you and I have, we know that it's a roller coaster ride. Literally.

It's highs. Highs and low lows. So. If you've gotten to a certain price point, there is no way I am lowering that price point to get bookings, because then you're gonna have to climb that mountain again.

Laura Esmond: Right?

Casia: Um, so it's figuring out either adding value or. Really talking with the client on what their needs are and trying to meet them in a way that isn't a disservice to the experience and isn't devaluing what you wanna do.

I mean, I just booked, uh, an adorable puppy session for the studio. Do I photograph puppies? I mean, I have furry children in all the family sessions, but this was an interior designer who I've worked with before, got a brand new puppy, loves the aesthetic of my white studio sessions. And when I told her what the initial investment was, she was like, I'm gonna have to think about that.

And so then I thought about it and I said, you know what? Why don't we start with instead of 10 digitals, let's start with five, and then if you see them, you can, but I didn't. I didn't change the price, I didn't like discount the price. It's still the same price of what five file files would be. Um, and then once you see them, if you wanna add more, you can.

And then that's when she said, oh, since I don't have to do the initial, uh, investment of 10 and I only have to do five, I probably wanna do a framed wall art piece. Then on top of that. So that, that shocked me because I thought, oh, she only has this budget. But because I was willing to work with her and offer other suggestions and options that didn't devalue or discount, now she's like, oh, now I have budget room in the budget to do a printed piece,

Laura Esmond: because that's really what she,

yeah.

We have to be really clever in listening to what is. What are the client's needs, um, in order to get that booking is, I guess what I'm saying, but there's no way that I'm discounting or lowering pricing. I've worked so hard to get to this point. Um, and this is a point to where I'm, I'm profitable. Um, so. I, you just gotta try all the, all the things before discounting serious.

Laura Esmond: Right, right. Yeah. And I

basically, all the things that we've talked about on this podcast Yes, exactly. Is what can help you get to that without discounting.

Laura Esmond: How often do you have people coming to you and just saying, well, I just, I just want digitals from you. What does it cost us to buy all the digitals?

Yeah. Well first off, we don't sell all the digitals.

Laura Esmond: Okay.

Okay. I, I sell them in a, for family sessions. It's an initial 20, um, that they go with. I just found doing this for so many years, nobody does anything with all the digitals.

Laura Esmond: Right. And because

I'm doing a design and ordering appointment, or some people call it an image reveal appointment. I call it a design and ordering appointment because I want them to know, like, we are picking your favorites, we're designing and we're ordering and placing payments, whereas it needs reveal, it seems like, oh, we're just viewing the images.

And then I can go home and talk to my husband and then time will take over and then I won't ever order them. Um, that's a whole,

Laura Esmond: I completely, that's another podcast I co No, and I completely agree with you though. I don't think that we should call it a reveal. It's not a reveal. Sure. You're revealing the images.

Yeah. The point of the meeting.

Yeah.

Laura Esmond: So I agree with you

somewhere like order, you know, needs to be in there or design, I don't know, um, that leads to product, you know, purchase. But, uh, I'm trying to remember what I was. Uh, saying here,

Laura Esmond: I was asking you about Oh, just digitals in general,

like Yeah, so

Laura Esmond: digital sales.

So we see that, yeah. Does do people, so I don't sell like, oh, these are all, you get all the digitals. I sell 20 initial digitals, and then if they wanna purchase more from that, they can, they can do it in bulk five after that. Okay.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. I

do

Laura Esmond: something similar.

If they are like, I have an additional seven, then I will do a case by case basis on like, do I wanna offer those additional two at like an a la carte price?

Um, and then for my motherhood studio sessions, it starts with an initial selection of 10, and then they can purchase more. Because I've just found my outdoor family sessions, they're seen on average like 55 to 75, uh, proof images on our TV in the studio. And then together we narrow them down to the favorites.

And normally, on average, most families. Average around half or slightly more. So why am I working on all of those digitals if they're only falling in love with half of them? I only want them to purchase what they absolutely love. And even us being photographers, even with our own sessions, we, there's like, you know, a handful of poses that we always remember, we always love, and we don't really remember too many of the other ones unless we go back to revisit the session.

Right. And that's similar to clients too. Um, but yes, I do sell just the digitals, but they have to do at least that initial selection because that's the minimum I need to make per session.

Laura Esmond: Okay.

Um, and another thing is why I, we started doing in-person sales in 2009, two years after opening our business.

And it was that I, we could go on and on about IPS, I mean, I'm super passionate about it, but there's so many different ways to figure out how to not just do digitals. Mm-hmm. Um. I, I do the, I do this, uh, I have this saying too, and I relate this analogy of like, if you were to hire a contractor to do your kitchen and you know, the, the sub brings in the backsplash tile.

Let's say those are your digitals, and they're like, here's your tile. Here you go, and then you have to install it and grout it. That's how digitals feel to me. When you're handing over the digitals to a client.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Most clients are like, what do I do with these? Yeah, you've got like those rarities that will print from it, but besides their social media and if they like email or show people on their phone, they have no clue where to get them printed.

How to get them printed, how did to display them? Do they even have time? Yeah. So I feel like it's a disservice to only offer digitals.

Laura Esmond: the digitals are not complete product. It's not the whole story. They're a safety net. They're definitely a safety net. And, and also there's like a whole psychological side of like when people buy just the digitals, they're basically just shoving the big decision later, right?

Like I'm feeling, which

they will never get to,

Laura Esmond: which they'll never get to because it's overwhelming and we don't like to make overwhelming decisions, so we push it off. Whereas when you sit down and do an ordering meeting with someone, you are guiding them and you're just, you don't have to make decisions for them.

You're just helping them make decisions and you're making it easier versus them pushing it off. why go through all that effort of a session and getting dressed and, and because no matter how unstressful we try to make it, it there's, they, there is an element of stress and concern that we just can't remove for our clients.

Why go through all of that to just get some digitals that you may, I don't know, print a few five by sevens around the house with like. Oh no. Yeah,

so much time and effort goes into that. And then just to hand over the digitals as a photographer, I'm like, w, W,

Laura Esmond: right?

Yeah. That's, and then, so it hurts my heart, hurts my soul because in my, in the back of my mind, I'm like, they're probably not going to do anything with these.

So that kind of is another idea too, that people, you know, they're like, oh, it's really slow now. It's really slow now. Why not reach out to clients from the past three years and go into your. Backend system and see who only purchased digitals and say, Hey, I'm just thinking about you checking in to see how, you know, would you like to print something from the digitals?

Did you ever print some? So that's another way to have income. And then to serve them too, is to always circle back around if they're only getting digitals on, like, I can still help you. I'm here. Let me take care of this for you. Because oh, guess what? Three years later you still haven't done it.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. So I think even as a business writing, taking notes somewhere, you know, if you have a really co, if you don't have a good complex invoicing system and you're like, I don't know, who did my digitals keep a little, maybe an asana or some program that you use of all the people that just bought digitals.

And then yeah, every January, February, reach out. And that doesn't mean it has to be a sale, it just means you're coming back and saying, Hey, I, if you didn't do anything with them, now's the time. I would love to work with you. And I can create something beautiful for you.

Speaker 3: Exactly. Um,

Laura Esmond: There's a book called Die With Zero It basically talks about, like different, you know, we, we can get into this tendency of thinking of save, save, save, save, save for retirement.

But really there are some things that we should just invest in because they're time sensitive. You know, one of the examples in the books, like there's only a short amount of time that your kids are going to feel that like Disney World or Magic Kingdom is actually magical. take them during that window if that's something that you think would be fun.

I was

actually thinking about this either yesterday or this morning, and I thought people, once they start their family,

their kids are little and they start looking into preschool, and preschool is typically something you have to pay for. And the nicer preschools are a hefty monthly fee. It would be amazing for photographers to begin educating the universe on like, Hey, you've started your family. Start putting away money every month for your family portraits as well because you're investing in their education, their school, their extracurricular.

Why are we not investing in portraits? Those are time sensitive as well. We'll never get back those milestones and we don't want anyone to have regrets. So I feel I'm always saying this, your health, your home and your portraits are like, should be top priority on your list of what you invest in your family.

Laura Esmond: Yeah.

Like I have so many photos of my kids digitally, so many photos, and they're overwhelming to me as a photographer. You know, I've got this one gallery in Pixie set that I have. Basically I'll go in and I'll take photos from my phone and I just dump them into there and they're disorganized and they're messy.

I know some people, like our clients, they've got Shutterfly or they're dumping everything, their Google photos and it's literally a photo dump. And, but what we do and what, what we really serve our clients with, especially for those of us selling products are. Let's, let's honor this moment and create something beautiful and let's get mom in the photos because she's usually the one taking them and all of these things.

But really the end goal is to create something beautiful for the home and get them off of this, do this digital dump that we all have. You know, so we're not, what did, what I, what did I put on my website recently? I think it says something, and this is on my portrait website. Something like, you don't need more photos, you need permanence.

And that permanence comes in the form of actually printing and, and creating our work for our clients, putting it on the walls.

Yeah, it comes into also like pressing pause often and soaking up these moments and documenting them.

Laura Esmond: Mm-hmm.

Too, too much. Now it's like go, go, go, and we're onto the next thing.

That's why if you are a full service or you're wanting to introduce products, you want to. Educate them on the importance of, this is why I'm here to help you, because before we know it, we're gonna be on to the next session. And then we wouldn't have honored that previous mm-hmm. First work based session.

Laura Esmond: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, 'cause to me, full service has always been that piece of it. It's never really been, but maybe it's just because of the generation photography I grew up in, like the, I'm perfectly comfortable helping my clients get styled without necessarily feeling the need to have a big wardrobe. Mine's more about maternity, like sheer dresses and things.

But the full service to me is, you know, what is it that you want from the very beginning, like you're talking about sitting down with clients and really getting that piece, and then how do I serve them all the way to the end to actually get that on the walls?

Mm-hmm. This will be a very circular conversation, but that's okay.

Laura Esmond: That's kind of my favorite.

So to summarize everything that we've talked about, what do you think is like the, the biggest thing that, that a photographer can learn even from just listening to the two of us talk about this, like, you know, sort of a weird, sort of a weird economy.

Um, a lot of people feeling like they're getting ghosted. They're, everyone feels like they're in a saturated market, you know, what can, what advice would you give?

Oh my goodness. A, stay true to yourself too, but also don't give up. Like if someone ghosts you. Pick up the phone and call them. Don't just send them the email.

Um, circle back around a few times. If it was a referral for somebody, you know, reach out to that person too and be like, so and so. I haven't heard back from them. Well, you give them a little nudge. There are so many ways in a slower season to um, really try to get those bookings and those clients that you wanna work with and, uh, I can't stress enough to just really, uh, network and communicate with the photography community and then your small business community as well.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. And so plugging yourself into, you know, small business. There's so many, I think, you know, small business networking groups and events, and I loved your idea of like, you know, go to a floral arranging class and, and if no one's doing one. Figure out a way to co-host one with a florist inside their space or inside somebody else's space.

So now you've got three businesses working together.

Yeah. You could do three businesses and they bring a certain amount of their favorite clients or customers, and then you invite a few of yours and then another third. then they're bringing their clients who are like-minded and can fit into your network as well.

Laura Esmond: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and you bring up a good point, Ian, and not give up. I think we have a tendency to, you know, we'll send one email or we'll do one post and, and you feel

like you're like nagging them, but you're really not. I call it like, Hey, this is a friendly reminder. I have no problem doing friendly nudges.

I mean, I miss so much in my personal inbox that I, if I was sending something to a client's personal inbox, I would be like. Thrilled if they texted me and said, Hey, check your email. I just sent you something. it just goes to show that you're going above and beyond and it makes you stand out in a saturated market that emails over their pricing or collections and then it ends there.

Laura Esmond: I think you said this before, like being willing to really work like we are in a season right now If somebody is in a, a starter phase of business, I would say the first few years or, you know, we're, we're proving right now that there are no matter how many years you've been in business, correct.

There are going to be down years that's going to happen. And those are the years that we kind of have to put our shoes on and get out there and start marching around and telling people about a business. I had a friend who opened a business in, um, a retail space out on the East coast, and it didn't go well at first.

She had a few months where she was like, what is going on? Like, I can't get people in the door. And, and she actually. Closed her studio immediately. She was retail and so technically she wasn't allowed to do that, but she did. She locked the doors and she spent two weeks just going around and talking to businesses, driving around, going to other retail spaces, calling people, emailing, and really getting the word out about her business.

And that was years ago, but it was probably 10 years ago. And I will never forget that 'cause it resonated with me in this sense of like, yeah, sometimes we just have to really work for our business more than just putting up a pretty website. We have to actually. Network. Get out there. Get out there. Yeah.

That's another idea I had too for this year, is there are businesses in my community that I would love to partner out, partner up with. Why am I not reaching out to them and starting that conversation first and saying like, Hey, I took a look at your website. I feel like I could really help you elevate.

Why am I waiting for them to come to me? Right. Go out and, and really partner with people that you wanna work with.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um,

I had a, I had a window washer guy walk into the studio a few months ago, and I, and we get a few solicitors here and I thought, oh great, here we go. Another one. But because he took the time and he was so friendly and welcoming and not pushy, I hired him.

Laura Esmond: Yeah.

And it's because he walked in Uhhuh. So it's almost like going back to. Not cold calling or like being salesman, but like, I think you said it on one of your podcasts too, bringing a basket of muffins. Mm-hmm. Or a gift and just really introducing yourself or start interacting with those businesses on social media and commenting and resharing their projects

That doesn't cost anything. Yeah. That's just your time and your genuine like. You want to help them?

Laura Esmond: Yes. And that and it all, you

genuinely want to help them. You know what I mean?

Laura Esmond: Yeah. It all comes from a place of service. I think when you're, if you're brand and your ideal client is aligned, just go in and serve those businesses to the best of your ability, you know, and ask them how, what do you need right now?

of, A lot of businesses don't even know where to start. So if you walked in and you were like, Hey, I do this. Do you feel like I could help you? Let's chat more. Or can I set up a meeting with the owner? Just, you gotta like be brave and. Build confidence and just go out there and get what you want.

Especially if you love doing photography. Don't, don't let it die and don't discount.

Laura Esmond: Right, right. And know that the, it will feel like, ugh, this feels like a lot of work to have to actually get up, get dressed, go talk to people, buy muffins and do this all the time. And you can streamline that and keep it easy.

And you can send emails and phone calls and things like that and it, but, and it, and it does feel like, is any of this gonna even pay off? But I mean, I feel that way with all marketing. I feel like with every, it's the long

game again, it's always the long game.

Laura Esmond: Exactly. It's the long game and it's, it's any connection you can make and some connections will fall flat.

Yeah.

Laura Esmond: Dead end. And

some will take years.

Laura Esmond: Some will take years and some will

take. You just have to be patient. You have to be patient and consistent.

Laura Esmond: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think we pretty much covered everything and everything we weren't gonna talk about and everything we were gonna talk about.

Speaker 3: I dunno how you're gonna edit this down.

I told you

once. That's okay. Maybe

Speaker 3: talking.

Laura Esmond: Yeah, I maybe I'll just post it. No, I won't. 'cause we definitely had some moments in there that we were just rambling, uh, or not rambling, but we're like, what are we talking about next? Yeah, because guys, that's how a podcast goes. What's our next question? What are we even talking about?

Uh, especially when you're, when you do a podcast with me. 'cause I'm like, I don't really, I don't, I don't outline things enough for it to have like a solid flow. So that's fine. That's on me

Well, thank you so,

of

Laura Esmond: course. So blessed for having this conversation. Hopefully

that was a, you know, some good help and

Laura Esmond: no, I, I mean anybody listening that you know, when you're listening to two people who have been in, in business for about 20 years each, ups and downs are normal. Ups and downs happen.

Stay solid to your pricing that makes sense for your business. If you undercut yourself, like I said before, like sure, I could sell a hundred sessions at, you know, a month at, at.

You're just gonna hate life though.

Laura Esmond: You're gonna hate life. Yeah.

and it's a disservice. 'cause they're not getting like your full energy because you're stretched too thin.

Laura Esmond: Right? Yeah.

thank you so much for coming on. It's been really, thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and your experience and being so open about what's working and, when you've had moments of having to, to put some more boots to the ground and there are times that we can just flow in this business and times it ebbs.

So yeah, I appreciate it.

Of course. Thank you for having me. Anytime.

Laura Esmond: Yeah. Thank you Casia.